Extracting Value from Your Existing Tech

Presenter 1: Tim Butler, CEO at Innovation Visual

Presenter 2: Chris Watson-James, Head of Technology at Innovation Visual

Title: Extracting Value from your Existing Tech

[00:00:00] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Hello and welcome to Revenue Rewired and I should explain; Revenue Rewired is the new name for what was Digital Marketing Answered, from the Innovation Visual Team and I'm very happy to be joined by Chris from our team today. Hello Chris.

[00:00:20] Chris Watson-James: Hi, Tim. How are you doing?

[00:00:21] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: I'm good, I'm good. I better do a little bit of explaining for all those loyal listeners and viewers out there, about where Digital Marketing Answered has gone and where Revenue Rewired has appeared from. I think really the name change is a reflection of the way the world is going and the way that we see the world of marketing and also revenue generation going. I talk about revenue generation and the whole revenue cycle, so it's not just marketing and sales as separate entities, they're very much joined up now and also bringing in customer service customer retention. And I think Chris with your work you've been seeing that as well, with the whole joined up revenue element.

[00:01:07] Chris Watson-James: Yeah.

[00:01:08] Chris Watson-James: Yeah, massively. I think there's just been this blurring of lines between all these different areas of the revenue org, traditionally people worked in these silos and we're just seeing that the way forward, the way we're, you know, to grow as a business is to break down those silos. A lot of that is around the technology, which we'll talk about. But it's about the people, it's about the processes, and we're just seeing, particularly the way we work with our clients, our remit is expanding and it's really exciting.

[00:01:34] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, and I think I suppose the other part of the equation if you like, so that's the revenue bit rather than talking about digital marketing, but the rewired element is that we're very much big believers in technology now being the strategic competitive advantage, in many of these scenarios. Yes?

[00:01:56] Chris Watson-James: A hundred percent. And I think, like you say, that rewired part of the title, it's looking at how we restructure, how we approach things differently, how we use the technology better. It's not always a rip and replace thing, it is sometimes literally rewiring. So, I think it's really apt.

[00:02:12] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, well that's good that's good otherwise we haven't messed up the title from the outset.

[00:02:16] Chris Watson-James: Absolutely.

[00:02:17] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah and for those of you that maybe are new to Revenue Rewired and didn't listen to Digital Marketing Answered, we are an agency that's been around for more than a decade and we've been providing this very tech infused and data infused delivery of services around the revenue generation element, which is what we're all about. So, I think in today's episode what we want to do is just talk a bit more about the basics of the value element of technology. Yes?

[00:02:47] Chris Watson-James: Yeah, a hundred percent.

[00:02:49] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Okay, good stuff. So, when we talk to new potential clients we talk about the gold mine in their technology and data. How would you explain that to somebody who's listening today about what we mean by this gold mine that's there?

[00:03:07] Chris Watson-James: So, for a lot of businesses over there five, ten, maybe fifteen years, they've been adopting new systems, they've been collecting data, running marketing campaigns, holding events, whatever it might be. And they have been collecting primarily a lot of data that, as we said, maybe is living in a siloed system somewhere.

[00:03:28] Chris Watson-James: Or maybe the ownership of it sits with just the marketing team or just the sales team. And as a result, there's all this untapped value in that data, right? So whether it be contacts you've just not reached out to, or whether it be , implicit and explicit data within there that we've not dug into, people are sitting on these goldmines where just a fresh approach or a new joined up way of looking at how we approach that data through new campaigns, new activities, can just unlock that value.

[00:04:01] Chris Watson-James: And it just, it is that fresh approach and a different way of looking at how you join these dots up.

[00:04:06] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, I was thinking then when you were talking I remember one of the conversations that we had not too long ago, where we gave an example to a company that we were talking to and we talked about their the contacts that they had in their database that they weren't communicating with at all, that they could communicate with. And I remember at their current conversion rate, that equated to 600,000 pounds worth of sales in you know potential sales straight out the door. I mean that that really is a goldmine isn't it, if you can extract that sort of value.

[00:04:41] Chris Watson-James: Yeah, it is. And sometimes when we look at these reviews or these audits of people's systems and their data, you know, we kind of come to the conclusion of, look, if we activated just 5% of these contacts. And then, like you say, go through their conversion rates. This is the value of it. And actually, that's quite conservative.

[00:04:58] Chris Watson-James: With well-structured campaigns you could be activating 10%, 20%. It'll be different for every business, but that value is there. And I think it's a case of looking at how we connect the people and the processes within these businesses better, using technology.

[00:05:14] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Okay Well, why are people not doing it now. Like if it if there's so much money being left on the table so to speak, why are people not doing it now?

[00:05:23] Chris Watson-James: A lot of the time it's down to historic decisions on how software was brought in, maybe, or how teams were structured. So, you know, you've potentially got marketing teams that own certain tools and systems within the tech stack. And, they have a remit of what they need to be delivering in terms of marketing qualified leads.

[00:05:43] Chris Watson-James: And they've been doing that. Maybe they've been hitting their targets, maybe they haven't. But that remit's never been expanded to go, well, hang on, are we doing things like nurturing post-event or nurturing post closed lost? Are we putting opportunities back into the system? It can be quite simple things and when you actually start to break it down, none of the things that we pull out for clients and push through as individual elements of that.

[00:06:06] Chris Watson-James: You know, game changing in the, on the, on their own. But when you start to add them all together, the big picture starts to really change how they've been approaching that data and where that value's coming from. So, it's not that our clients or our prospects are incapable of seeing what we are seeing, it's just that they're not looking at it that way.

[00:06:24] Chris Watson-James: And they have these silos in their teams where sales owns this, marketing owns that, customer success owns something else over here. And we just bring everything together, I think, and we help align that data, align those processes and look at it differently and understand that there is value hidden in there.

[00:06:42] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Okay I like that we look at things differently that says something there, so in terms of how that looking at it differently starts, what do you know people listening how should they start thinking differently about what they're doing?

[00:07:03] Chris Watson-James: I think it's seeing everything quite holistically, understanding that the big picture is all about aligning behind the right goals. So instead of getting your marketing team to focus on driving marketing qualified leads and your sales team to be closing at a certain cadence or whatever it might be.

[00:07:22] Chris Watson-James: It's actually saying, look, these are the big picture goals. This is the business goals, and how do we align everybody behind that? And as you work through that process of understanding what does it take for marketing to work towards these revenue goals, you'll start finding the friction and the pinch points of; is it a process problem? Is it a system problem? Is it a data problem? And honestly, a lot of the time we find it's all of those things. There's bad data in systems that aren't connected with people that have outdated processes, and that's just frustrating for everybody. You've got good people in good roles, unable to do good work because they're being held back by these three things,

[00:07:56] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: So, the data, I mean the connection of the data as well as the Connectivity thinking siloed, thinking sounds like something which is important to break down and then obviously releasing the value of the people. So, like in practical terms you've talked about data a few times and I know we talk to new companies quite a lot about data why is it important?

[00:08:23] Chris Watson-James: Yeah, it's an interesting one as well because data's not a particularly sexy thing that people want to spend a lot of time and resource on. It feels like, a burden. It feels like maybe sometimes it's quite a daunting prospect. You know, if we've got upwards of a hundred thousand contacts in A CRM or maybe an even on a spreadsheet, it feels a lot to start going through and talking about things like data hygiene and, is there still, you know, are these still relevant and recent contacts? Is there any signs of engagement? But actually, what you need to be able to do is have this solid foundation of data, which does include things like, making sure you've got well formatted data, making sure you haven't got loads of typos and emails, addresses, things that don't sound on the face of it that important.

[00:09:09] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah.

[00:09:09] Chris Watson-James: Because that data is what's gonna allow you to do things like build really good audience segments. It's gonna allow you to trigger automations based on that data. It's gonna allow you to drive things like lead scoring so you can actually understand who these people are, at scale.

[00:09:26] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah.

[00:09:27] Chris Watson-James: Once we start talking about anything more than a few thousand contacts, your team can't manually stay on top of that.

[00:09:33] Chris Watson-James: You need a system that's going to do it for you. And actually, a lot of our clients do have upwards of a hundred thousand contacts. It's not feasible for someone to be manually vetting those, to be staying on top of how segments are built.

[00:09:47] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah.

[00:09:47] Chris Watson-James: And you know, realistically, a lot of these databases are built out of lists that have come off the back of events or emails that have been scraped from salespeople. They don't necessarily have a good, enriched value to them.

[00:10:00] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: I think part of the problem actually is that this resource constrained, high pressure, Performance KPI orientated, we've gotta hit our numbers guide, got to hit the sales, we've gotta hit the MQL's, got to hit the lead generation. I think people just skip over the data thing because

[00:10:19] Chris Watson-James: Definitely.

[00:10:20] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: As you say it's a bit boring and dull, but also actually they don't understand what to get to grips with because it's not salesperson’s natural place or a sales manager's natural place. And it's typically not a marketing person's natural place ''oop I'd love to dig into the data'' and it's also almost never a full-time role.

[00:10:41] Chris Watson-James: Yeah.

[00:10:42] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: You can't have somebody in-house, it’s just not worth it unless you've got huge amounts of things going on with your data. So, you have to go to an external agency, but then you don't know what questions to ask; and I think that's the psychological bit, they just want to get straight to, gimme some leads.

[00:10:59] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: We've come across people aren't we where it's just like oh we'll just get more contacts We just spend more on paid, and you're like, do you realise how much, how many contacts you've got in your database that are relevant, good-fit

[00:11:12] Chris Watson-James: Yeah.

[00:11:12] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: ICP and yet, you're not doing anything with them. And they go, it's easy to go and spend money on paid campaigns or events, isn't it?

[00:11:21] Chris Watson-James: It is. And I think people come back from events and, you know, and from reading their kind of go-to magazines or whatever it might be, and they've picked up these buzzwords of things they should be doing. And these things are right, you should be doing things like lead scoring or automated nurture flows, or automated sales outreach, whatever it is.

[00:11:38] Chris Watson-James: But you can't just dive straight into those things without the foundations in place to allow you to do it. If you can't segment your data because your data not formatted correctly, if it's literally that simple, area codes or phone numbers or all these things have these structures in them that inherently make them useful. If that isn't there, you can't use them to segment. You can't drive segmented automation. It's that simple.

[00:12:02] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, that you didn't mention data cleanliness we were talking about this the other day in the context of a new company that we're engaging with. There's some pretty clever things now we can do to clean up data aren't there?

[00:12:17] Chris Watson-James: Yeah, there are, I think gone are the days where it's just manually going through a spreadsheet and trying to work out clever filters to align things. You know, there's so much, that can, the heavy lifting technology can do for us now. Whether it's using automation to scrape records, enrich records, pulling additional data.

[00:12:36] Chris Watson-James: Whether it's using AI, I think this is the first time we've mentioned AI in this episode, but it, it's a big thing these days as everyone knows, but a lot of people are not using it in this context. They're using the kind of the gen AI side of things for creating content and actually the thing that AI is very good at, it's looking at big data sets and understanding them from a kind of human level very, very quickly.

[00:12:59] Chris Watson-James: So, something that a human would take hours and hours to go through, AI can just process it and therefore there's so much value there in tying up your data.

[00:13:09] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: There's a whole world of like pattern matching and things like that, and I think it's because people that don't understand how some of these AI elements work and work together, they refer back to things like oh we can't use ai cause AI might hallucinate. And if it's in the context of cleaning up data you shouldn't be setting something up in a way, that actually should generate any hallucination if you're actually using it right.

[00:13:37] Chris Watson-James: Yeah. We're not talking here about dropping a spreadsheet into chat, GPT and expecting miracles to come out. We're talking about structured flows that are built and designed to do this, and this is what we're now doing for clients., It's working out how we can provide that as a, a reliable flow.

[00:13:55] Chris Watson-James: That means that poor data can go in one end, good data can come out the other end, and we don't have worries around, you know, data privacy or any of these things. So, it's a real game changer.

[00:14:07] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, okay cleaning up the data, action point for people listening just engage with somebody to help you through this I think, because probably don't have the skills in-house , or yourself it's a different sort of mindset, but this is go get this sorted out so you can hit your targets later on, Is that what we're saying?

[00:14:29] Chris Watson-James: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:14:30] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Okay, so then if we're talking about extracting value from technology, what else is that gonna mean? You've mentioned historic systems, legacy systems, data sitting in different places, so if somebody wants to extract more value from their technology, what do they need to do at this point?

[00:14:50] Chris Watson-James: So, I think the way to look at this, is that your tech stack, the collection of software that you have, as part of your revenue org, it needs to be greater than the sum of its parts. What a lot of people have is all these best-in-class systems, whether it's a CRM or email automation or sales outreach.

[00:15:10] Chris Watson-James: There's loads of different elements to this, help desks and things. Each of these might be best in class. They might have been brought in last year, ten years ago, five years ago, and they're doing the job that they were brought in to do for the most part. But they've got so much untapped value in them, so we work a lot with HubSpot, and HubSpot does tens of thousands of things.

[00:15:32] Chris Watson-James: Typically, people will buy it in for a handful of reasons. They need to do email marketing, they need to do automation, but it has so much more it can be doing, and that's true of Salesforce. It's true of Pardot. There's so many things these platforms can be doing, but the weak point is always these tools don't have access to the right data, or the wrong teams are using them, or there's crossover between these platforms, because of the way that the organisation has been set up and therefore they're not being used to their full value. So, you have best in class tools in silos, that are not reaching their full potential individually, but the bigger picture is even more dramatic because these tools are not then working off of each other.

[00:16:13] Chris Watson-James: So, it's not always a case of replacing tools. It's not a case of necessarily, you know, going through and consolidating platforms down. Although, that can be part of it. Sometimes it is just a case of. Actually, we've got loads of valuable information in our customer service portal. Wouldn't it be useful if the sales team could see it, or the marketing team and so on?

[00:16:33] Chris Watson-James: And it sounds very simple, but so many people are not doing this properly.

[00:16:37] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, okay so how are we to desilo? How are we to, you know it's all well and good saying you need to allow the marketing people to look at the customer service data and have salespeople understand what's going on in this other area and what the prospect has been interacting with marketing content, okay easy to say, why is it not being done so far?

[00:17:04] Chris Watson-James: I think sometimes it is difficult to achieve, I think particularly internally in organisations that have any kind of complexity to their structure. It can be not as straightforward as it sounds, so sometimes it comes down to ownership. So which teams own which processes and which systems within the business, and therefore, what are their priorities?

[00:17:24] Chris Watson-James: What are their goals? Ultimately, if you've got data siloed in a sales tool and the sales team are tasked to close as many deals as possible, clearly their focus is not going to be on, oh, wouldn't it be useful if we get some of this data back to the marketing team? They don't particularly care about the marketing team's goals, and that is often what we see.

[00:17:43] Chris Watson-James: And again, that's not the way it should be. They should all be working towards that single aligned set of goals and therefore they should care what the marketing team want to do and what data they've got access to. So it's by having that top down change of approach about things like what are the goals and how do we align teams behind goals as your starting point, it will then quite quickly show you that we need to go through and we need to rethink how we're sharing this data back between, so is it integrations, is it consolidation of platforms? Yes. It could be both of those things, but it will be different for every organisation we look at.

[00:18:19] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: I think where we've got to with this technology and these things where we've got different people buying different elements and they're not connected and there's somebody not driving connectivity between systems. I actually think that's a legacy from this move over recent times, and I've you know, I've been in the industry for longer than I want to admit, to like shadow IT you like that it's marketing leaders and sales leaders and customer service leaders buying technology, whereas if I think back twenty plus years into the times of on-premise technology, there's a database sitting on a server and managed the computers. And if you have a problem with your computer, you basically go and talk to IT and they solve it, and IT are the only people that buy technology. That was quite coordinated but also it was quite sluggish and you didn't have the thing, where it didn't really understand I think one of the things about SaaS tools being purchased by marketing and revenue leaders is that IT didn't understand what actually made a good tool as they got closer to sort of substituting people's time in these different elements It wasn't just the sort of

[00:19:43] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: really structural stuff but I think that the shadow IT culture in businesses has led to fragmentation of purchase decisions and fragmentation of management cause you go into IT companies they sort of manage the underlying network and people's device infrastructure, but they kind of have to end up signing off on marketing and sales are doing and customer service are doing and there isn't that joined up thinking a lot of instances would you think that?

[00:20:18] Chris Watson-James: Yeah, I do agree. And I was thinking as well when you were talking about the kind of the IT world, there was that whole, nobody ever got fired for buying IBM thing. It is kind of that, like you say, that's rolled into things like Salesforce because it became a, well, obviously you buy Salesforce and Salesforce does a job.

[00:20:34] Chris Watson-James: You know, there's, there are plenty of reasons to buy something like Salesforce and there certainly were more reasons ten, fifteen years ago to be thinking that way, and that's not necessarily the problem in itself. The problem is that isn't always then connected to whatever the marketing team are using or whatever the customer success team are using, and it's that disjointed approach.

[00:20:53] Chris Watson-James: And the mentality behind those purchasing decisions that has led to that, not necessarily the individual decisions themselves.

[00:20:59] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah.

[00:21:00] Chris Watson-James: And that's I think, what's put a lot of companies in a position where often leadership has changed in that time.

[00:21:06] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah.

[00:21:07] Chris Watson-James: They're just not aware of what's in use across the business.

[00:21:09] Chris Watson-James: And that's an interesting one when, we have business owners coming to us saying, I just don't know what the teams are using.

[00:21:15] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, I think we could probably do a whole episode on de-siloing but

[00:21:20] Chris Watson-James: Yeah.

[00:21:20] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: I don't want to dominate this. Which we want to talk about extracting value from existing tech and just siloing being the other thing, people and process like this is a big thing for talking technology, but it's humans that use that technology. Seeing in terms of how people should approach the people and process element when it comes to extracting this value from the tech.

[00:21:46] Chris Watson-James: Yeah, it's a big area and I think for us it's become very much a case of approaching how the people are using the technology is just as important as which technology is being picked, and it goes all the way back to the very start of that relationship of basic training, ensuring adoption. I mean, the adoption one is probably the most frustrating one we see for a lot of businesses, where the technology's there is probably configured quite well. Maybe it isn't, but generally speaking, the technology might be doing what it's meant to be doing, but people just aren't using it, you know? Or they're using it to the least amount that they can. And often that's just because they've not been given, the empowerment to do that. They haven't been managed correctly to do that.

[00:22:33] Chris Watson-James: Or, you know, maybe when it was first set up it wasn't achieving, what it should be doing, which is making lives easier. So, the adoption's a massive one. Just having a top-down review of who is using tools, are they empowered to use the tools? Do the tools actually make their lives better? And then driving that adoption, that's key.

[00:22:54] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, I'm smiling because I was recalling the conversation that I think we had was it last week or the week before. When we asked the question of that potential client in the discussion, we said Well why do you want to replace your current CRM? And the answer was because nobody uses it.

[00:23:12] Chris Watson-James: Yeah.

[00:23:13] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: So, it wasn't anything to do with the technology per say, other than nobody is using it and so yeah, I think that was a combo of configuration as well as adoption.

[00:23:24] Chris Watson-James: And we see people who've made those decisions to bring in, let's be honest, not cheap platforms. And then they're not getting used properly, but they don't want to be the one to hold their head up and say, oh, I know I recommended this in and, but I think it's wrong. We need to change it now. You know, no one wants to be that person.

[00:23:41] Chris Watson-James: But sometimes that has to happen.

[00:23:44] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, but that said I think that adoption can be solved by intelligent training And I don't like to use the term too much but change management because, that it's changing habits isn't it And I don't think people are putting enough thought into actually changing people's habits are they?

[00:24:08] Chris Watson-James: No, and the thing is as well, it's doing it across the business because ultimately if you've got key players in a business, whether they are the sales guy that's been there 25 years, or whether it be the CEO or whatever it is, if they're not changing, the people directly around them are not gonna change either.

[00:24:26] Chris Watson-James: And then you start to get that ripple effect of people going, oh, well if sales isn't changing or if senior management isn't changing, we won't 'cause what's the point? And ultimately, it's like you say that change management was saying actually across the business, this is what we're saying is the process now.

[00:24:41] Chris Watson-James: It seems like such a simple approach, but it's, it is fundamental to making this work. And, there's training elements that go with that, making sure that the actual end users know how to use the thing that we're trying to get them to do, But I think more importantly, it's getting people to actually adopt it.

[00:24:57] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, no I'm with you on that and I do think that often we underestimate the human psyche of habits like people who have tried to lose weight or have tried to break habits things like smoking or something like that. And I appreciate there's a also a chemical addiction in smoking, but habits are really hard to break and people I don't think enough about people's working day as a set of habits and actually how do you re-anchor habits. I'm a big believer, and I’ve read a number of books, about how to actually evolve habits and change habits and habit anchoring and things like that. But I think that's where smart thinking about adoption needs to really start with human behaviours.

[00:25:50] Chris Watson-James: I think when someone asks the question of Why do you do it that way, and the response is we've always done it that way. You know there's a problem.

[00:25:59] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, for sure, okay so if we're gonna unlock the technology, sorry unlock the value in the technology for people what's the action point here on the human element? What would you say, something that they could maybe do today which would unlock some value from that element?

[00:26:18] Chris Watson-James: I mean, it's a very human approach, but I think it's talking to the different levels of people within the business. So, talk to key department team leaders, talk to end users. Try and understand where those points of friction are.

[00:26:33] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yep.

[00:26:34] Chris Watson-James: And understand where there's common themes for people saying, oh, I can't see this, we can't do that.

[00:26:39] Chris Watson-James: And really listen to, those statements when people say, oh, we can't do that because. Because so often the, because will be something like, because sales do that or because we don't have access to that, and it will start to quite quickly make you realise, oh, well here's the pattern. Everybody is essentially saying the same thing from a different angle, and we need to then address the processes that underlie those parts of the business and again, align it with the goals.

[00:27:06] Chris Watson-James: There's no point trying to tackle things that are not gonna be driving you towards, your big goals and, therefore. Start there. Start with our goals are X, whether it's growth, scaling the business, whether it's revenue, and then what are the processes that are not functioning to drive those goals.

[00:27:23] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Has that gotta come from the CEO or is it possible for an area's responsibility to make. Because you just talked about the reluctance of, oh well if they're not doing it, I don't want to do it. How do you get them to buy in then?

[00:27:38] Chris Watson-James: It can be difficult. I think having CEO, having anybody at the top of the business bought in is key. But I think the big thing that we see a lot of is that internally people have, they have their own biases. They have their attachments to the way that they do things within their part of the business and where we would typically add values, we come in as that external voice that can look at things very objectively, understand what the problems are, not have years of, sort of frustration of not being able to get the systems or the processes to do what they want to do and bring people to the table to have that discussion.

[00:28:16] Chris Watson-James: 'cause it, it really is a cross-business discussion of where are, where is the value and where are the pain points? Because ultimately if you try and approach it from one side.

[00:28:28] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah.

[00:28:28] Chris Watson-James: You are only gonna fix it from one side and you won't get that buy-in from the other side of the business essentially.

[00:28:33] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: So, the external player has the twin advantages of no bias within the organisation towards an area or no politics if you like.

[00:28:43] Chris Watson-James: Yeah.

[00:28:43] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: If they're telling us their knowledgeable so they come in with a with the they are telling us this is best practice. So, it's an informed guidance, it allows other people to align behind it, rather than saying oh well that's Bob in sales he is always going on about that stuff and they're already prejudging You know whether Bob's brilliant or not brilliant they're prejudging it because it's Bob's idea.

[00:29:10] Chris Watson-James: Absolutely. And whether we like it or not, there is always, there has always historically been that friction, particularly between marketing and sales. That reluctance to kind of listen to each other from, you know, the other side of the fence as it were. And the way we're looking at it now is there isn't a fence.

[00:29:25] Chris Watson-James: It's one team united buying one goal and aligning the processes properly across that one team.

[00:29:31] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Yeah, okay so just to recap for people, people and process get people on board get people aligned get break the habits and actually get them using this stuff working back from that the technology desilo, it might mean changing technologies but actually quite often it's more about connecting technology and connecting the data. And then that brings us onto the data piece which is wow if you really looked at the data that you've got and joined it up could just uncover a lot of money being left on the table.

[00:30:10] Chris Watson-James: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:30:12] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Okay.

[00:30:12] Chris Watson-James: That’s, the Holy Trinity of revenue operations, I think.

[00:30:15] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: Okay, well that's good, that's good I'm glad we've covered that that off. So hopefully people have found this discussion useful about getting more value from the technology, I think it was a good kind of starting point for the Revenue Rewired relaunch. We've got some exciting episodes coming up anyway, haven't we?

[00:30:34] Chris Watson-James: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:30:37] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: so yeah so, I'll I think we can sign it off there for this one appreciate everybody for listening to Revenue Rewired and remember if you came expecting Digital Marketing Answered it is the new name, and it is the new theme. So, I hope you found the conversation useful. Please do like and subscribe follow wherever you are getting your podcasts or if you are watching this on YouTube and then also if you want to have some help you can reach out to any of the team at Innovation Visual and we can help you with that. We're contactable through innovationvisual.com as well thanks to Chris for chatting to me today.

[00:31:16] Chris Watson-James: Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me.

[00:31:17] Tim Butler - Host of Revenue Rewired: And thanks to everybody for sparing the time to listen to us. And yeah, until next time keep rewiring the way you think about growth.

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